robertmackayclan

This is very odd, I just checked the Morris Family Tree D.N.A. project for Morris listing of test results. I saw my distant cousin James G. Morris listing he match not with other Morris but with Isaac HOLLINGSWORTH I 1

Our Morris lived in Orange Co. NC to Henderson Co. TN.


Wonder who he was ?

so does this mean that James G. Morris is not a part of the family containing Henry,Zenus, etc.?

Just means that this Morris & Hollingsworth share a distant ancestor.

You will need more male descendants of Isaac Morris to be tested.

Since I do not know who turned in the Hollingsworth sample, I can't say where you should start looking for the common ancestor.

so does this mean that James G. Morris is not a part of the family containing Henry,Zenus, etc.?

The Haplogroup for the various findings for men who have send in a Y marker test for Hollingsworth surname found on their site.

The Hollingsworth family associated with the Mackay/Mckay are the descendants of Valentine Hollingsworth R 1b1b2.

This means the person who claims descend from an Isaac Hollingsworth tested out as I l. He would not be a descendant of the said Valentine Hollingsworth.

There are other men who do not descend from Valentine Hollingsworth who send in test samples. You would have to e-mail the project manager of this group to see if he would give you further information.

If you have send in a sample under the surname Morris, you could have the e-mail address of the man who send in Hollingsworth sample give as I 1. Ask him for further information.

I believe I have posted here a message about Wm. Morris and his will, which acknownledged that a member of his household fathered a son with the maid (Missouri Miller). This child was known as Frank Melton Miller. His nephew Felix Melton fathered a child with Miss White and I believe a daughter. Charged in court with his action. Could be he fathered the son with the Morris maid. So if a man send in a Y marker test I have no idea if it would show Morris or Melton markers.

There were Hollingsworth living in Benton Co. TN, the location of this Morris household and I have no idea if one of them fathered a child with Miss Hollingsworth.

Looking for my distant Ball cousins who might be interested in submitting a D.N.A. sample.

Years ago I found the grave marker of Booten French Ball with his parents and brother-in-law at C.S.A. cemetery in Manassas, VA.

Since, he was buried without a wife, I wrongly assumed he was single. However, I have found him on the later Federal Census in Pr.Wm.Co.VA. with wife Alma F. and children. It would appear they had two sons: Clifford D. Ball & Clay W. I did find the marriage record for Clifford D. Ball on the Pr.Wm.Co.VA Marriage Registry. Information found on this record "Clifford D.Ball age 22 years, born & living in Pr.Wm.Co.VA, parents Booten Ball & Alma F. Mohler, shipping clerk, married 22 Jun 1929 to Aileen H. Shifflet 19 years, born College Park, MD, living in Manassas, VA, parents David Shifflet & Ivan? Kane"

His brother Murray Lewis Ball, his marriage record in Pr.Wm.Co.VA, living in Fairfax Co. VA list his name as Murray E. Ball, parents John W. & Mary E. Ball married 23 Jan 1907 to Lillian Breen 22 years, parents John J. & Fannie Breen.

I can't seem to find them on the census. Both brothers of my great-grandmother Moslena/Lena (Ball) might have living male Ball descendants.

She had other brothers: Gideon (have not found a death record), John Jackson (have not found a death record), Miller (died @2 years) & Washington (have not found a death record).

As far as I can tell, no one else has the above information about these two men on the net.

Heritage Quest has John Ball indexed as John Bull for 1900 census. His family lived in Centreville listed as being a farmer.

The public library has the land deed for Fairfax Co. VA I plan to see if they go down to 1900.

Some of the dates given on this census do not match some of the other dates I have gathered from other census, birth & death registries:

John Ball Jul 1839 60 years, married 31, wife Ella Oct 1849 50 years, had nine children seven? alive (think she had 12 children), daughter Bessie Jan 1875 24 years, son Booten Aug 1879 20 years, son Murray Aug 1886 13 years, daughter Florence Jun or Jan 1888 13 years, living with them his son-in-law Mittias (sic) Shipp Dec 1875 24 years married 7 years, his wife their daughter Lena Nov 1877 22 years, had two children two alive, Walter Nov 1896 3? (my grandfather) & Carrie Nov 1898, taken 4th Jun 1900.

I have five films to read today at the public library: Rapphannock Land Deeds, Culpeper Wills & Culpeper Land Deeds.

1900 Fairfax Co. VA census stated that John & Mary Ella (Edwards) Ball had nine children could be nine alive for year 1900.

Their children who I know were alive in 1900: Mary Alice (living with her husband in Culpeper), Alma Watson (living with her huband in Fauquier Co. VA), Bessie, Lena (married), Booten, Murry & Florence.

I know of five other children-- first two could be alive in 1900: Gideon (living in DC boarder saleman of dry goods) & John Jackson (have not been able to locate him), two others I have death records: Miller died 1882 Fauquier Death Registry & Wertie died 1884 Culpeper Co. Death Registry, Washington Ball listed on Culpeper Birth Registry born 1885, he does not show up on later census, I assumed died young.

So I know they had 12 children, she (or the person who supplied the information to census taker) could have just forgotten about the three children: Miller, Wertie & Washington who died as young children.

Where Gideon & John Jackson Ball lived I do not know.

In any case, the information given on the 1900 census about the number of their children is not correct.

Heritage Quest has John Ball indexed as John Bull for 1900 census. His family lived in Centreville listed as being a farmer.

The public library has the land deed for Fairfax Co. VA I plan to see if they go down to 1900.

Some of the dates given on this census do not match some of the other dates I have gathered from other census, birth & death registries:

John Ball Jul 1839 60 years, married 31, wife Ella Oct 1849 50 years, had nine children seven? alive (think she had 12 children), daughter Bessie Jan 1875 24 years, son Booten Aug 1879 20 years, son Murray Aug 1886 13 years, daughter Florence Jun or Jan 1888 13 years, living with them his son-in-law Mittias (sic) Shipp Dec 1875 24 years married 7 years, his wife their daughter Lena Nov 1877 22 years, had two children two alive, Walter Nov 1896 3? (my grandfather) & Carrie Nov 1898, taken 4th Jun 1900.

I have five films to read today at the public library: Rapphannock Land Deeds, Culpeper Wills & Culpeper Land Deeds.

A GOLDEN FILM FAIRFAX CO. VA MARRIAGES--found three marriags: Booten F. Ball, Bessie Ball & Florence Ball. I have pieces of additional information about these three people from later census. You can find the same on internet.

"BOOTEN F. BALL 22 years, born in Fauquier Co. VA, living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents J.W. & Mary E. Ball married 5 Mar 1902 to Alma H. Mohler 19 years, born & living in Fairfax Co. VA., parents C.J. & Sallie Mohler, married by D.L. Blakemore" You can find her parents and siblings on earlier & later census. Her mother the first wife of said Claucus J. & Sallie. She must have died before Oct 1893, last child born. Said C.J. & his first wife S.J. with their first son Frank S. age one, living with his parents John W. 56 years of age and his wife M.E. 48.

"Ira C. Wells 26 years, born & living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents John T. & Elizabeth Wells, married in home of bride in Centreville on 29 Dec 1903 to FLORENCE BALL 17 years, born in Rapphannock Co. VA, living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents J.W. & Ella Ball, married by J.C. Hawk". You can find Ira on earlier census with his parents in Fairfax Co. VA census 1880 and he and Florence on 1910 with their two children, by 1920 Centreville, Fairfax Co. VA, said Florence died and Ira living with their three children: Raymond, Carlos & Murray. "We" had in the family notes said Florence had married Mr. Wells, first name missing and place of marriage not known. There is a marriage listed in Fairfax Co. VA "Implied Marriages" John T. Wells & Elizabth Kincheloe, will try later to see if I can find him listed on Fairfax Co. VA birth registry. We have cemetery books for Fairfax Co. VA, will try in future to see if Florence (Ball) Wells is listed. Found on 1880 Centreville Fairfax Co. VA census: John T. Wells 46, A.E. 36, Eva 16, Edward 14, John 11, Omes? (male) 8, Ira 5, Virginia 2, Susan Wells his mother 70 years.

"George P. Thombley 25 years, born & living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents S.P. & Mary Thombley married in bride's house in Centreville, Fairfax Co. VA on 5 Jun 1901 to BESSIE A. BALL 25 years of age, born in Fauquier Co. VA, living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents J.W. & ........?, married by D.L. Blakemore." I am have a "devil" of the time finding his surname in VA census.

I did not find Florence (Ball) Wells listed in the cemetery books at the Fairfax Public Library. Some cemetery for Centreville are listed but if she is buried in this town, they did not include the right cemetery. I plan to visit the location "poke" around.

Also want to check out the town of Milford Mills in Prince Wm. Co. VA, the location of Virginia Lee Shipp's birth. My guess is that this is the location where my grandfather Walter Eugene Shipp's four siblings were born & died.

A GOLDEN FILM FAIRFAX CO. VA MARRIAGES--found three marriags: Booten F. Ball, Bessie Ball & Florence Ball. I have pieces of additional information about these three people from later census. You can find the same on internet.

"BOOTEN F. BALL 22 years, born in Fauquier Co. VA, living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents J.W. & Mary E. Ball married 5 Mar 1902 to Alma H. Mohler 19 years, born & living in Fairfax Co. VA., parents C.J. & Sallie Mohler, married by D.L. Blakemore" You can find her parents and siblings on earlier & later census. Her mother the first wife of said Claucus J. & Sallie. She must have died before Oct 1893, last child born. Said C.J. & his first wife S.J. with their first son Frank S. age one, living with his parents John W. 56 years of age and his wife M.E. 48.

"Ira C. Wells 26 years, born & living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents John T. & Elizabeth Wells, married in home of bride in Centreville on 29 Dec 1903 to FLORENCE BALL 17 years, born in Rapphannock Co. VA, living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents J.W. & Ella Ball, married by J.C. Hawk". You can find Ira on earlier census with his parents in Fairfax Co. VA census 1880 and he and Florence on 1910 with their two children, by 1920 Centreville, Fairfax Co. VA, said Florence died and Ira living with their three children: Raymond, Carlos & Murray. "We" had in the family notes said Florence had married Mr. Wells, first name missing and place of marriage not known. There is a marriage listed in Fairfax Co. VA "Implied Marriages" John T. Wells & Elizabth Kincheloe, will try later to see if I can find him listed on Fairfax Co. VA birth registry. We have cemetery books for Fairfax Co. VA, will try in future to see if Florence (Ball) Wells is listed. Found on 1880 Centreville Fairfax Co. VA census: John T. Wells 46, A.E. 36, Eva 16, Edward 14, John 11, Omes? (male) 8, Ira 5, Virginia 2, Susan Wells his mother 70 years.

"George P. Thombley 25 years, born & living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents S.P. & Mary Thombley married in bride's house in Centreville, Fairfax Co. VA on 5 Jun 1901 to BESSIE A. BALL 25 years of age, born in Fauquier Co. VA, living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents J.W. & ........?, married by D.L. Blakemore." I am have a "devil" of the time finding his surname in VA census.

We had in the family notes the surname of Bessie A.'s huband was spelled as Thombley and that is what it looked like on the marriage registry.

HOWEVER, the name would appear on census as TWOMBLY. for 1900 Providence, Fairfax Co. VA the household: Stephen Twombly born Sep 1842 born in Maine married 30 years, wife Mary born Sep 1845 had seven children five alive as of 1900, Mamie Aug 1871, George P. Jan 1876 (future husband of said Bessie A. Ball), Stanley M. born Sep 1878, Nellie Feb 1880, Joseph Sep 1882.

I can find the surname on earlier Maine census.

I can find George P. Twombly and his wife Bessie A. (Ball) on later census, it would appear they had at least three children. They might have died in Fairfax Co. VA will check cemetery listing at a later date.

Heritage Quest has John Ball indexed as John Bull for 1900 census. His family lived in Centreville listed as being a farmer.

The public library has the land deed for Fairfax Co. VA I plan to see if they go down to 1900.

Some of the dates given on this census do not match some of the other dates I have gathered from other census, birth & death registries:

John Ball Jul 1839 60 years, married 31, wife Ella Oct 1849 50 years, had nine children seven? alive (think she had 12 children), daughter Bessie Jan 1875 24 years, son Booten Aug 1879 20 years, son Murray Aug 1886 13 years, daughter Florence Jun or Jan 1888 13 years, living with them his son-in-law Mittias (sic) Shipp Dec 1875 24 years married 7 years, his wife their daughter Lena Nov 1877 22 years, had two children two alive, Walter Nov 1896 3? (my grandfather) & Carrie Nov 1898, taken 4th Jun 1900.

I have five films to read today at the public library: Rapphannock Land Deeds, Culpeper Wills & Culpeper Land Deeds.

It is from Godfrey's son Frederick Shipp census information which gave us the birth place of his father as being VA and his mother in VA.

However, the earliest known legal location for Godfrey Shipp would be 1800 Emmitsburg, Frederick Co. MD. Right on the line with PA. Another census record for his eldest son John Shipp (born 1801) states he was born in MD. He was my direct ancestor.

The 1800 Emmitsburg, Frederick Co. MD only has two males: 1 male under 10 and male as 10-15, which makes me wonder if the census was marked correctly. Older female 26-44. I do not see films in L.D.S. library collection which would be helpful tryng to figure out this family group. Will have to check public library later in the week. Surname indexed as Shipps, first name Goofsey? on Ancestry.com 1800 census.

As of 1810 the family was living in Hampshire Co. VA/WV and I am finding records for him in Shenandoah Co. VA (lived at Stoney Creek) as of 1818, where he died around 1830 census. The will book by Amelia C. Gilbreath only abtracted the wills found in those county books. I will start pulling that information into book form when I finish with land deeds.

The book by Ralph D. Shipp of CO, made the incorrect statement (which is all over the net) that all Shipp Families in VA were offspring of Wm. Shipp of early Norfolk, VA. Another researcher has proven Joshua Shipp (Ralph D. ancestor) was his own emigate and not directly related to said Wm.

When he compiled his book, D.N.A. testing really was not done. Now this is not the case a complete study could show if these various Shipp men were indeed related.

I have legal evidence that Godfrey had a brother named Jacob Shipp who it would appear traveled with him. There was a Frederick Shipp could be his father or older brother, but I lack evidence they were related. Godfrey did name a son Frederick, could be evidence or not. I just need evidence where they lived before Frederick Co. MARYLAND.

I am beginning to doubt that my group of Shipp were related to the other Shipp Families of Norfolk into NC and other parts of the south & west.

Another researcher has suggested that my Ship/Shipp was Shipe, but I have not seen evidence of that thought. I know the Shipe Family came down from PA into Shenandoah Co. VA.

I am only pulling information on my direct line of Shipp.

After studying my Shipp problem with a librarian at L.D.S. (a German Researcher), given the oldest known location of Godfrey Shipp as being in Emmitsburg, Frederick Co. MD.

We started thinking over the issue of his movements, if it were likely he removed from Norfolk or Essex Co. VA into that part of MD.

After looking over PA arrivals of passengers, we found a listing of Palatines imported in the ship Molly, Capt Olive, sailed out of Rotterdam:

John Frederick "X" Shipp age 22, and he took an oath at court house in Philadelphia, PA on 17 Oct 1741.

I have other bits and pieces of information found in Frederick Co. MD which I need to put into focus. "We" think my Godfrey Shipps found on 1800 Frederick Co. MD was an orphan living with younger brother Jacob and their mother (name I do not have). There was a Godfrey Ship who died in Frederick Co. VA c1782, need to look at those papers.

As it stands now, all that work trying to connect my Shenandoah Co. VA Shipp Family with the Shipp Family of early Norfolk Co. VA, was in vain. They are not related at all.

My Shipp Family is not English but GERMAN.