robertmackayclan

Based on the DNA results it's highly likely that a name change ocurred somewhere in Kent Smith's ancestry from Mackay to Smith. Whether or not he could prove to be a descendant of Robert remains to be seen. This is based simply on the fact that of all the other matches we have (with the exception of the George match, more on that later) all are either McKay, Mackay or some variant of Mackay like Kee or Key. This simple basic findings proves to me at least that our name was Mackay from early times. Whether we can connect with the Clan Mackay remains to be seen. The other Mackay test subjects not in our group do not match us any more than someone named Jones would match. It gives an indication of how surnames developed I believe.

Now if there were Smiths associated with Robert's ancestors it could be possible that Robert's brother or 1st cousin could have fathered a child with a Smith woman. It would yield a close match to members of our Robert Mackay family. Since the people Dee Ann mentioned were of pre-Quaker times we do not know the character of these people since we don't have any written documents other than the ones Dee Ann has seen.

But, any Quaker member activity involving such a relationship would have been written negatively about.

As to the George relationship he tested an exact 12/12 match with me initially. He did not upgrade to the other test ranges so we don't know if he matches any more closely. I included him in our test circle just because of the 12/12 match. Hopefully he'll want to see if we match any further. If he does then it's likely that it's a similar story of a name change within his ancestry from Mackay to George.

I have already seen in the early civil/religious society of MA if an illegimate birth took place they would record that event. They made a lot about those kind of events. Who was whipped and how and who would pay the fine. The father of the girl/woman was usually the one who had to paid the village/government the fine & a promise to support the child. The colonial governments did not want to pay future support for the child.

The civil officials of MA watched all the people's private lives very closely on all kinds of activities. All can be view on film dealing with the court records of early MA. Since, Mr. Smith mentioned joining the "Mayflower Society" he should be familar with the records available in MA.

If a MacKay fathered a child with Miss Smith in MA it would be found in the civil records. Same true in the civil record of CT, NJ or VA,if the records are still available.

Quakers were not the only religious group who tried to manage people's private lives. For my research, it is a shame Robert was not a Quakers in NJ, for I am sure I would find it easier to trace his life in that location, but he was not.

How a person ends his or her life is not a useful tool to figure out how they began their lives. This has been true about "our" Robert. At the end of his life a landowner and a Quaker, at the beginning of his adult life in NJ no record of land ownership and non-Quaker. Lots of available records in VA, more in PA/MD, not the case in NJ. Why, because it i easier to trace our ancestors if they owned land and slaves and a member of religious society or a civil offical.

Time will tell, if and when, Mr. Smith finds the records to get his family out of MO--that location will tell the tale of his family history.

My point was, if Mr. Smith's family lived in Shenandoah Co. VA, not as helpful for me to find the birth place of "our" Robert. If CT or MA that would be helpful to connect "our" Robert with the prisoners of 1652. I will still have to find the documents to make the connection.

There was a prisoner on the same ship as the MacKay men, a Henry Smith. I do not know what became of him. He would have been in MA by 1652.

I am waiting, if and then, I can connect my Robert Mackay of NJ, PA & VA to the prisoners of Scotland to MA to try to see if I can find relationships between these various prisoners. Did they live in the same part of Scotland or from all over the country ?

Some of Daniel Mackay descendants removed to CT. I think Michael stated his DNA profile did not match his.

Henry & John Mackay (father & son) also removed to CT. And Archibald MacKay family also removed to CT. The book by Coy descendants linked said Archibald to Daniel's family, but the documentation is lacking. I believe he was the son of one of the other Mackay.

If you can get your family line back to this location, could explain the match with "our" Mackay family of VA. And then helpful to me !!

We have various posting about the prisoners here on Michael's site.

All depends on you finding the location of your family before MO. I really do not hold out hope your family was from Shenandoah Co. VA. But the documents will point the way.

Good luck.

If you type in

Scottish Regiments At The Battle of Worcester up will pop up a site with information about the Battle.

One of the group in the battle--Clan MacKey Foot--Strathnaver

I also typed in the above phrase and a Gordon site came up with DNA profile. Might be of interest.

I am assuming you have already check the marriage records for Bates Co. MO. The L.D.S. library as them on film.

I do not have the 1850 Bates Co. MO on line, the 1860 for Bates Co. MO list the birth places for Smith head of households as: AL, KY, NC, OH, MO (most) & TN. You will notice none for IN.

When you are pulling records on the male lines started by James Sr., his sons: James Jr. and Robert. Most of their legal heirs that lived in IN have been traced down to the generation you want. So you might need to check out illegitimate blood lines.

One blood line which I have not ruled in or out being connected to the blood line of James Sr., would be is "mulatto man Sam" Date of will 1797, so might have been 30 years of age ? about the same age group of his two legal sons. When I start going through the land deeds for Shenandoah Co. VA I hope to find out when James came to own said slave. Where did he removed after his freedom? Another bit of information I do not have. Did he follow the others to IN and then moved further west? The "white" heirs of James Sr. seem to remain in IN.

I do not have the time right down to check L.D.S. center if they have on hand information dealing with Bates Co. MO, perhap in the coming months I will find some time.

Good luck.

I reviewed the film from the LDS family center this week and found my desired marriage record. It confirmed the date, location, and other information we had. However they did not record parents on the forms at that time in that county.

The data we have is:

Mr. John Dennis Smith of St. Clair Co., MO and Miss Mary Etty [sic] Mendenhall of St. Clair Co., MO were joined in matrimony on Jan 5, 1876 in St. Clair Co., MO by Elder Henry R. Price and certified by Daniel P. Morgan.

My next film will search through the court records of St. Clair Co., MO for any information on John Dennis Smith.

KS

I hope this letter finds everyone doing well.

My name is Kent Smith. I am the GG-Grandson of John D(ennis?) Smith, b. 1851 in Bates Co., MO. His obituary stated that he was an orphan at about the age of 7 (~1858). I have been searching for his parents for about 10 years now with no success. Late last year I submitted my DNA to FTDNA expecting to find a match with someone in the hundreds of Smiths. To my surprise I found some close matches with 4 different McKay (various spellings) submitters. A few months ago I found a match of 65/67 with one David Wilson McKay.

They have traced their McKay ancestry back to Robert Mackay. According to FTDNA I have a certain probability of one of these Mackay men being my paternal ancestor with the following likelihood out of each generation:

Gen 1 - Robert Mackay – 79%

Gen 2 - James Mackay – 70%

Gen 3 - James Mackay – 57%

Gen 4 - Robert T McKay – 41%

Gen 5 - Issac McKay – 22%

I am currently working on searching through each generation to find out who may have ended up in MO where I assume John D Smith’s parents were killed. His obituary only states he went to live with relatives, but nothing about their names. We have no family stories about the family that raised him or why his last name does not match his DNA.

If there is a way I can get a message to the many Mackay researchers about my story to see if anyone might have a family story about a family who died in the 1850s and left a child or children that might help my efforts. I assume I could post it to one of the forums just as easily now that I think of it. J

In case you are interested, here is his obituary from 1947 in Oklahoma.

In memory of John Dennis Smith

I am interested in joining any distribution lists or other information pertaining to the Robert Mackay Clan.

Sincerely,

Kent Smith

Livermore, CA

I reviewed again the 1870 census information for Mary Etta Mendenhall, the wife of John Dennis Smith. In 1870 she was 13 living with her parents and siblings. Their neighbor was a Smith family, but did not include a John Smith. That family had previously moved to MO from IL between 1867-1870 according to the birth location of the last child. The Mendenhalls had been in MO for no more than 7 years (after 1863).

In 1870 John Smith would have been about 19 and could have been connected to this Smith family somehow. That would explain how he and Mary Etta would have met.

I will need to search out this Smith family back in IL to see what I can find.

KS

Charles H. Smith 38 born in New York, farmer and could be his wife Emily R.? 46 also born in New York.

Since he was a farmer, perhaps you will find land deeds for his purchase of land.

New York really not in the living area of Robert Mackay Sr's family.

Good luck.

I reviewed again the 1870 census information for Mary Etta Mendenhall, the wife of John Dennis Smith. In 1870 she was 13 living with her parents and siblings. Their neighbor was a Smith family, but did not include a John Smith. That family had previously moved to MO from IL between 1867-1870 according to the birth location of the last child. The Mendenhalls had been in MO for no more than 7 years (after 1863).

In 1870 John Smith would have been about 19 and could have been connected to this Smith family somehow. That would explain how he and Mary Etta would have met.

I will need to search out this Smith family back in IL to see what I can find.

KS

James Mackay Jr.'s sons settled in Jefferson & Switzerland counties, IN, next to KY. A far distances from IL.

Could be that Charles Smith born in NY was the oldest son of another Smith and they moved to MO, where your John David Smith was born. In which case you will be looking for a Smith Family of NY.

Good luck.

Charles H. Smith 38 born in New York, farmer and could be his wife Emily R.? 46 also born in New York.

Since he was a farmer, perhaps you will find land deeds for his purchase of land.

New York really not in the living area of Robert Mackay Sr's family.

Good luck.

15 Jun 1880 same household of Charles H. Smith 48 years, farmer, born in NY, father in MA and mother NY, his wife Emily J. 45 born in NY, father & mother born in NY, their children Frank C. 23, Horace A. 21 years, Ella A. 18 years, Alice T. 12 years all born in IL.

Charles H.'s son Frank C. listed on 1900 census. If you are interested in this family I would look at death records for this county. I do not see his parents on this 1900. Their deaths might be listed on the county records.

His sister might have married in the county and those records might yield parents' names. The same with Frank C. Smith.

Good luck.

I reviewed again the 1870 census information for Mary Etta Mendenhall, the wife of John Dennis Smith. In 1870 she was 13 living with her parents and siblings. Their neighbor was a Smith family, but did not include a John Smith. That family had previously moved to MO from IL between 1867-1870 according to the birth location of the last child. The Mendenhalls had been in MO for no more than 7 years (after 1863).

In 1870 John Smith would have been about 19 and could have been connected to this Smith family somehow. That would explain how he and Mary Etta would have met.

I will need to search out this Smith family back in IL to see what I can find.

KS

18 Aug 1860 in Durham TWP, Hancock Co. IL household of Nathan Mendenhall 35 years born in IN, Lucy 34 born NY, Lucetta 10? born IL, Sydna 7 born in IL & Mary E. 3 born in IL.