robertmackayclan

The book by David Dobson "The Orginial Scots Colonists of Early America 1607-1707, page 93.

"Key, John, a prisoner of war, captured at the Battle of Dunbar 3.9.1650, transported from London to Boston, New England, on the "Unity", master Augustine Walker, 11.1650, settled in Kittery, Berwick, Maine,1656"

Since this man is listed in a book about Scottish emigrates I am assuming he was Scottish.

No Kee listed.

The Scottish Prisoners of the various battles against Oliver Cromwell, were held at the Tower of London and the officials decided which English possession in the New World they were send.

........................................................
Early Virginia Immigrants by G.C. Greer, has no Key listed by there are

Key, Robert in 1650, by Wm. Gooch, ......VA
Key, Wm. 1650 by John Mattrum, Northumberland Co. VA
Key, Sarah 1649 by Thomas Dale ........?(doesn't give county)
Key, Katherine 1648 by Lewis Burwell, ......?(doesn't give county)
Key, Thomas 1649 by Nicholas Waddilow, Northampton
Key, Thomas 1648 by John Baldwin, Northampton
Key, Peter 1653 by Co. Wm. Taylor, Glocester Co. VA
Key, Adam 1639 by George Minifye, Charles River Co. VA

This book doesn't give the location of where these men lived in GB.

The county Northumberland is the same place John Mackay was send, the other counties are closer to Surry & Isle of Wight.

The question to them have they heard of these prisoners?

Kee could easily be a variant of Key. Matter of fact, I did mention that he was tested with another individual named Key and the match was 23/25. That's a more indepth test than the 12/12. When they test for more variables it indicates a closer relationship.

Surely, this doesn't take the place of doing actual genealogy research but it may offer clues as to where to look since there is an obvious genetic connection.

The female test (MTDNA) works just like the male except it is traced through the females only, mother to daughter etc. Y-DNA is only from father to son.

I don't understand how people can use that to test for American Indian ancestry except if they have a straight maternal Indian ancester.

In my case, both the MTDNA and Y-DNA show European origins but my Indian lines come through other families on my mother's side that cannot be traced through these tests. In that instance only traditional genealogy work can uncover the facts.

I know where I need to find the documentation about our Robert without the DNA test results. The problem will become if the documents still exist in this county or in GB.

Your test is more helpful to the people who have not documented their blood lines back as we have.

I need to find Robert again in NJ with the hope the record will point back to MA or elsewhere. Nothing short of this will do to prove our line.

Does the DNA testing give you the number of generations back in time that the Key researchers & our MacKay line came from a common ancestor? If the answer is Scotland then I seriously doubt we would never find documentation. The records in early 1600's Scotland or England are very spotty. And only a small percent have been filmed by L.D.S. church.

I have not found the records to show that the MacKay prisoners who fought together against Cromwell were related. It could turn out they and others on the list of different surnames all came from the same small village. I would expect back in time they might have a common ancestor.

If you do not have a listing of the prisoners, let me know. I have abtracted from Dodson book his listing and I have a second list taken from the Suffolk Co. MA land deed books. The latter list the names have not been modernized.

According to the piece on WETA about five African-American living in US, the female test does show the racial groups of European, Southeastern Asian & African. The latter I believe they have only mapped five different groups in Africa. The second group they claim would indicate our "Native American". The first grouping speaks for itself. They had a map of Europe with the groups they had mapped. I do not know if they would still have a link to the program on their web site or not. It was stated that 15% to 20% of African-American males in this county show European "Y" for their main male line. They did tests for them with their female side to show were in Africa their line came from within the small sample they have for Africa.

It is all interesting, but doesn't help me produce records about our Robert.

I also have the surname MacNeil among the Scottish Prisoners-- some were taken to MA and some to VA. I am looking at the ones send to Lancaster Co. VA, next to Middlesex Co. VA where my oldest known John MacNeil lived before his son John H. removed to Fauquier Co. VA. That would be very interesting if two different branches of my family fought in the same battles--Dunbar & Worchester.

I do not see my Fleming family in the same situation. Still looking for Thomas Fleming in Frederick Co. VA.

I am also looking at my Taylor family of SC, for I think they came from the Barbados into SC, some of the Scottish Prisoners were taken to that location. I have a lot of work to do in SC before I can take that jump.

Why Beatrice Mackey Doughtie & Hunter B. McKay did not dig into this group of MacKay, I do not know. They both knew about them. Makes we a still nervous. In any case, see how far we have come since Hunter B. McKay's time in our research !! Perhaps we will be the generation who solves the 80 year mystery. Hunter B. McKay started the Family Research in Nov of 1927.

Let's keep each other posted.

It can give sort of an estimate. Like for example in the case of the George 12/12 match if we are indeed connected to this individual (rather than it being a chance mutation) if there were no additional matches it would put our connection at somewhere during the 1300s before Surnames were frozen which would easily prove a connection.

In the case like Kee I'm suspecting there is the likelyhood that our matches will be more than 12/12 if we did additional testing. This being my theory that Kee is just a variant of Mackay and that the surnames had become frozen by then.

In either case you have like in any scientific test a little bit of room for variation. It has to do with the mutation rate of the DNA strand. In some instances the mutation rate is faster than others.

Before I knew of your match to the George family, I ran across a item in the early MA records, while looking for our Mackay. A woman with the surname George (I forget her first name) was whipped in public for have a illegitmate child in in the early 1660's. No mention of the father's name. If had known about the surname I would have made a note. Perhaps more information will come up on that surname. A connection with MacKay & George in the 1300's seriously doubt we will never find a record for that.

The only other information I have on that surname was in Fauquier Co. VA in the 1800's. Much too late for our use.

I looked at the "Coy Family History" again today. It is a disappointing book in a way, because it does not address the other Mackay prisoners, just Daniel Mackay. It speaks only of the surname in general terms, which can be found in any book about Scottish Surnames. No home location for said Daniel Mackay. I have no idea if the birth place for him-- some have placed in L.D.S. computer is real or make up.

There are modern Coy family members bearing the surname living in MI published in this book:

1. Matthew Allan Coy b. 4 Oct 1979 Hudson, MI

2. Nathan Howard Coy b. 3 Jul 1981 Hillsdale MI

3. Anthony Lee Coy b. 11 Dec 1983 Hillsdale, MI.

Their line of Maccoy/Mackay from Scotland, MA, CT, NH, Vermont, NY into Canada, MI. If it were possible to compare a test with them it would be very interesting.

They have connected their line to Daniel, but I think their oldest known MacKay came from one of the other prisoners. Daniel left a will in 1711 no Archibald mentioned.

The most obvious thing that the DNA tests will confirm is that our Mackay family is not alone.

Since of all the records we have, the only members of Robert's family that are recorded are his wives and children. No mention (as of yet) of parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.

Finding matches with people with variant names to 'Mackay' at least shows that some people are related to us prior to Robert.

I believe that the 'McKay' match I have is a descendant of James McKay and Mary Chester since he lived in west-central Ohio. I remember that some of James's branch of the family moved to Ohio and Indiana.

The book by David Dobson "The Orginial Scots Colonists of Early America 1607-1707, page 93.

"Key, John, a prisoner of war, captured at the Battle of Dunbar 3.9.1650, transported from London to Boston, New England, on the "Unity", master Augustine Walker, 11.1650, settled in Kittery, Berwick, Maine,1656"

Since this man is listed in a book about Scottish emigrates I am assuming he was Scottish.

No Kee listed.

The Scottish Prisoners of the various battles against Oliver Cromwell, were held at the Tower of London and the officials decided which English possession in the New World they were send.

........................................................
Early Virginia Immigrants by G.C. Greer, has no Key listed by there are

Key, Robert in 1650, by Wm. Gooch, ......VA
Key, Wm. 1650 by John Mattrum, Northumberland Co. VA
Key, Sarah 1649 by Thomas Dale ........?(doesn't give county)
Key, Katherine 1648 by Lewis Burwell, ......?(doesn't give county)
Key, Thomas 1649 by Nicholas Waddilow, Northampton
Key, Thomas 1648 by John Baldwin, Northampton
Key, Peter 1653 by Co. Wm. Taylor, Glocester Co. VA
Key, Adam 1639 by George Minifye, Charles River Co. VA

This book doesn't give the location of where these men lived in GB.

The county Northumberland is the same place John Mackay was send, the other counties are closer to Surry & Isle of Wight.

The question to them have they heard of these prisoners?

Here's the reply I received from Richard Kee regarding our 12/12 match.

---

Michael,

Thank you for your inquiry. It would interesting to know if you had a
12/12
match with Justin Key, as copied on this message. Justin and I had
23/25
hit, and are very likely related but cannot find the exact connection.
My
GGGF came out of McMinn Co, TN, in the 1830's. (He was reportedly born
in
VA in 1815, but I cannot confirm this). Justin's known ancestors
settled
there some years later, and he was ultimately born there.

As to your question regarding MacKay and Kee, I have no known link, but
our
12/12 match must mean something. Family lore has it that the Mc was
dropped
in times past when an ancestor moved from Scotland to England. This
pure
hearsay, but possible.

In any case, you may find the below passage of some interest:

"Most interesting to read of the Keie/Kae/Kee connections. I am trying
to
connect to William Key/Kee, born, VA - 1815. That having been said, I
once
thought that I had my William Key/Kee all the way back to Robert Kae I,
Surry & Isle of Wight Counties, VA. About 1630. For that matter, I
visited
both county courthouses, whose records have not burned, and found a
wealth
of information.

For instance, Robert Kae had land and property on Lawnes Creek
confiscated
by Gov. Berkeley of Jamestown, for his participation in Bacon's
Rebellion.
Many of the rebels were hung for their part in burning Jamestown. And
Bacon's Castle, the first permanent brick home in the Americas, still
stands
in Surry County ...adjacent to Lawnes Creek! In other records, the same
land
is listed as having belonged to Robert Kay. Also, in Lord Sandies
records of
the London Company, we find two clerks, William and Robert Kay,
brothers.
Captain Robert Kae I (wife of Anne Goodrich), Robert Kae II and Robert
Kae
III, were all attorneys working primarily in Isle of Wight and Surry
Counties. I have copies of numerous original records with their names
listed
on them.

Lastly, the property deed sequences went from Kae-to-Kee-to-Kea, over
the
course of about 50 years of VA tax/census records. In other words, land
that
belongs to Robert Kae is eventually listed as belonging to Robert Kee.
And
William Kee to William Kea. The names seemed to change because the
recording
clerks blurred the letters ae, ee and ea.

Lastly, James Kee, as descendant, was clerk for the Surry County
Revolutionary committee in 1776. His name is listed in revolutionary
records. He became sheriff of the county in 1800 and was most
properous."

Justin may be able to add more.

Kindest Regards,
Richard Kee
La Verne, CA

---

I think there is a book dealing with D.N.A. I am looking for a person who can explain it all to me, in simple "English".

Genealogy, as far as what I doing is the collection documents. And I do not collect information on people who are still alive.

D.N.A is a rather simple thing to do, but the results are not the same as legal documents. As far as I can tell it will really only give the person being tested your single male line in racial terms.I have run into a lot of people who want to claim "Native American" ancestry. I think the famale test (perhaps male test) can prove or misprove that claim.

It will still be interesting for you to see your own results.

There have been interesting TV spots on the History Channel & WETA (public TV) with D.N.A study in archaeology. These bones tested were far beyond in time when surnames were used. WETA also had the study of African-American testing being done, which was very interesting.

In any case, keep us posted.

I am proud to announce that I finally got the skin out of my brothers mouth and have officially been notified that they have begun testing. We should have tentative results by April 24. It's easy to lead a brother to the kit but you can't make him scrape!!!

Dee, I wish all of this was as easy as they make it seem on PBS.


Here's hoping that he didn't eat before he scraped.

Bibby

He'll join a group of us comprising three other Robert Mackay descendants, plus two individuals of the Kee (Key) surname.

We three differ by two markers respectively which got me to thinking that it's possible that this is normal for testers whose common ancestor is one of Robert's sons apiece. Junior McKay descends from Moses McKay and Mary Job and Kent Smith's ancestry is unknown, but I believe he has to be from either James or Zachariah.

We'll see how your brother's test results compare with ours.

How far back in time does Kent Smith have his ancestor? And what location.

Zachariah MacKay/Mckay had only one son and we have a later generation.
I believe his descendants moved south

James Mackay/McKay we have a greater number. His in OH, IN ect....