robertmackayclan

On L.D.S.#601550 has listed all the early Quaker Meeting House in East Jersey & West Jersey by Wm. Nelson. I will have to get back to you about the specific name of the meeting house. Chesterfield Meeting House is the one our Quaker of Burlington used.

Some of the very early meeting took place in people's houses.

Hunter has account of his visiting a meeting house near Freehold, Monmouth Co. NJ. I will try to find it.

I will need to find out more about Robert through additional deeds, it would appear that the Nottingham Meeting House would be the first Quaker house to be associated with him.

I didn't realise until I re-read the last statement in my partial record of Robert Mackay Sr. but I had Sarah McKay Smith & Francis reversed. Francis was Sarah McKay Smith's grandfather and not the other way around. Francis was the son of Moses McKay and therefore a great-great-grandson of Robert Mackay Sr.

Sarah McKay Smith did some research into our family during her lifetime and presented it at the Collett-McKay Picnic. I do not know what she had as sources. Perhaps she saw much of the same stuff that Hunter did. She was ten years older than Hunter. I don't think she published her material like Hunter did.

The statement about Robert becoming a Quaker after marrying a Quaker woman is attributed to Sarah. Documentation on this, however is still missing.

Question, what Quaker presence existed in Monmouth County New Jersey that Robert could have become involved with? The earliest Quaker history of our family goes back to East Nottingham in PA/MD.

People thought that Robert became a Quaker upon the marriage to Ann Brown. Because they connected her with the Brown Family who were members of Nottingham Meeting, PA. However we know that is false.

Jobe researchers thought Robert had come Quaker because of the marriage of Robert Jr. with Patience Jobe. But we know that is false because Robert & Mary Mackay attended his daughter's marriage in 1725/26.

One of Robert's neighbors in PA was one of your "tribe" Stephen Hollingsworth, perhaps living next to him make up his mind to go "Quaker". That's a joke!!

I will wait until I find more evidence and then all this will be explained.

Our ancestor Benj. Borden was a Quaker who lived in the same area as Robert Sr. He had lived in R.I. I viewed a number of micofilms dealing with their meetings. My ancestor John Hampton lived in the same town as well.

The book "Old Times In Old Monmouth" by Edwin Salter & George C. Beekman as accounts of the early Quaker preacher: John Richardson, George Keith, Wm. Penn purchased a large tract of land to settle Quakers upon.

In any case, now we know our Robert was not a Quaker, which is why I couldn't find Mackay amoung their records !!!

I have re-ordered a film dealing with the Presbyterian Church of Freehold, NJ.

I remember a quote in a general history book, that a number of the settlers who came down from NY & New England were of no particular religion. So perhaps that where Robert will end up.

I didn't realise until I re-read the last statement in my partial record of Robert Mackay Sr. but I had Sarah McKay Smith & Francis reversed. Francis was Sarah McKay Smith's grandfather and not the other way around. Francis was the son of Moses McKay and therefore a great-great-grandson of Robert Mackay Sr.

Sarah McKay Smith did some research into our family during her lifetime and presented it at the Collett-McKay Picnic. I do not know what she had as sources. Perhaps she saw much of the same stuff that Hunter did. She was ten years older than Hunter. I don't think she published her material like Hunter did.

The statement about Robert becoming a Quaker after marrying a Quaker woman is attributed to Sarah. Documentation on this, however is still missing.

Question, what Quaker presence existed in Monmouth County New Jersey that Robert could have become involved with? The earliest Quaker history of our family goes back to East Nottingham in PA/MD.

The book "Scotland and Its First American Colony 1683-1765" by Ned C. Landsman has a good account of the history of East New Jersey, Quakers and other religious groups.

The has the following about

"In the early years, Presbyterians were probably the least visible group in Freehold. The town was founded by George Keith, and many of the servants who settled there were Quakers. Its most prominent citizens belonged either to that persuasion or to the Episcopalian Church. Sometime before 1700 a few Scottish inhabitants orgaized a Presbyterian meeting, but not until 1705 did they obtain a patent for the grounds for what became the "Old Scots" church, located between Wickatunk & New Aberdeen. They hired Rev. John Boyd as pastor and he served as the only Scottish minister in the province until his death just three years later."

His book also has the following statements:

"Scottish women also did not take on their husbands' susrnames at marriage; they kept their own family names instead. Thus a characteristic entry from the poll tax roll reads Wm. Tacie, tennent; Margaret Kerr, spouse."

He also has

"Where in English families the eldest son often was named after the father, Scottish families customarily named their eldest sons after paternal grandfathers, and their eldest daughters after maternal grandmothers.

I didn't realise until I re-read the last statement in my partial record of Robert Mackay Sr. but I had Sarah McKay Smith & Francis reversed. Francis was Sarah McKay Smith's grandfather and not the other way around. Francis was the son of Moses McKay and therefore a great-great-grandson of Robert Mackay Sr.

Sarah McKay Smith did some research into our family during her lifetime and presented it at the Collett-McKay Picnic. I do not know what she had as sources. Perhaps she saw much of the same stuff that Hunter did. She was ten years older than Hunter. I don't think she published her material like Hunter did.

The statement about Robert becoming a Quaker after marrying a Quaker woman is attributed to Sarah. Documentation on this, however is still missing.

Question, what Quaker presence existed in Monmouth County New Jersey that Robert could have become involved with? The earliest Quaker history of our family goes back to East Nottingham in PA/MD.

Let's not assumed Robert changed his religion because of a marriage to one of his wives.

Since we can now place him in Freehold, NJ by 1705 and he was not a Quaker at that time, his first marriage most likely not Quaker and most likely his second marriage also not Quaker. All of which would explain why no one has been able to find records of these marriages.

It could be Robert and his second wife Mary and the children just converted together. I do not know what the procedure was to become a member of the Society of Friends. I do not recall seeing a certificate of removal from a Quaker Meeting in NJ to the one in Nottingham Meeting. Which is why I think it was more likely they became Quakers upon settling in PA/MD.

We may never know why he became a Quaker, but we might be able to find the year he did so.

Bear in mind finding the surname Mackay (any spelling) in early NJ--is a real find. The point being find a Robert Mackay in Freehold, Monmouth Co. NJ is a real big deal.

Two men both of Freehold, Monmouth Co. NJ Robert Burnet selling to Wm. Robinson 315a on the north side of Cranbury Creek in Twp of Piscatagua (not sure of spelling). The date of the land deed filed in Middlesex Co. NJ 19th Feb 1705. The two witnesses Peter Burnet & Robert McKay (sic).

I am ASSUMING the said P. Burnet & Robert McKay also were from Freehold, NJ. I need to find the actual location of the property. The witnesses could live near the location of the land being sold.

If this is "our" Robert MacKay Sr. this is the first document I have found dealing with his life in NJ. By this time period he should be of legal age, now we know he was in Monmouth Co. NJ at least by 1705.

The "Bomb Shell" part of this deed is in 1714 (recorded in probate section of the deed), Robert Mackay (sic) was the the only witness alive and he came into court before clerk or JP Thomas Gordon and "being solomonly sworn on the Holy Evangelist of Almighty God" did take an oath he saw Robert Burnett sign said deed.

The point of the part in the probate section--he was still living in NJ in 1714 and he took an oath--QUAKERS--confirm.

So Robert Mackay was not a Quaker as of 1714. And more than likely his first marriage to Ann Brown took place in NJ and not a Quaker marriage. Their children most likely born in NJ. At this point I do not know if important or not, a John Brown of Freedhold, NJ also was a witness and he also took an oath.

Something to ponder.

What we now know about Robert's life in NJ to PA/MD

1. 1705/06 Robert Witness a land deed filed in Middlesex Co. NJ, which now we can locate him that early in Freehold, Monmouth Co. NJ. This also means most likley his children born in NJ.

2. 1714 Robert took an oath in connection with the above land deed, which now we have to look for him not in Quaker records of NJ and beyond, but another religious groups or perhaps he did not belong to any group. I will check mostly civil records. Most likely his first marriage was not Quaker and perhaps not his second as well.

3. 1715 he is still in NJ for not listed on the Nottingham Twp Tax List

4. 1721 Robert on Chester Co. PA Tax list, adjoining lands held by Jobe & Hollingsworth. Both are Quakers.

5. 1723 purchased lands in this area of PA now MD

6. 1725/26 his daughter Mary MacKay married George Robinson in MD, remember his daughter signed the document as Robinson. Robert's second wife at his time was Mary MacKay, both he and his wife Quaker by this time.

7. 1729 Robert listed on East Nottingham Tax List

8. 1730 Robert's daughter Margaret McKay married Joshua Jobe, remember his daughter signed the record as Jobe. According to this record Robert's third wife Margaret McKay. If the same Margaret she out lived her husband.

9. 1730 Robert sold his lands in PA/MD

Sometime between those years I assume he became Quaker. I wonder if it was through contact with Jobe & Hollingsworth families.

I'm assuming that it happened before 1723 because I'm guessing he was a Quaker by the time he moved to Pennsylvania & Maryland.

I and many other researchers (Elwood McKay comes first to mind) have looked through the Quaker records of that location and many other earlier Quaker records looking for a certificate of removal into PA/MD. Nothing was found. It could be those record have been lost. I need to reorder the records and see if other records were filed around the time Robert & his family removed to that meeting house.

I am thinking it was more likely became Quaker upon his living in PA. The reason why I have no thoughts on that matter. What does it take to make someone change his or her religion ?

I am going to the L.D.S. library today, so perhaps I will find something new today.

Quakers generally became such through what was called 'Convincement'. As the records of the Friends dealing with our family whilst in Virginia put it upon visiting I believe Moses McKay that people needed to be 'Convinced of the Truth' and as such they decided upon themselves to become Friends.

Friends during those days aren't like Friends you see today. Like other groups, they believed their version of Christianity was right and everyone else was wrong, so it is only natural that they would try to persuade others they encountered to think likewise.

Bear in mind finding the surname Mackay (any spelling) in early NJ--is a real find. The point being find a Robert Mackay in Freehold, Monmouth Co. NJ is a real big deal.

Two men both of Freehold, Monmouth Co. NJ Robert Burnet selling to Wm. Robinson 315a on the north side of Cranbury Creek in Twp of Piscatagua (not sure of spelling). The date of the land deed filed in Middlesex Co. NJ 19th Feb 1705. The two witnesses Peter Burnet & Robert McKay (sic).

I am ASSUMING the said P. Burnet & Robert McKay also were from Freehold, NJ. I need to find the actual location of the property. The witnesses could live near the location of the land being sold.

If this is "our" Robert MacKay Sr. this is the first document I have found dealing with his life in NJ. By this time period he should be of legal age, now we know he was in Monmouth Co. NJ at least by 1705.

The "Bomb Shell" part of this deed is in 1714 (recorded in probate section of the deed), Robert Mackay (sic) was the the only witness alive and he came into court before clerk or JP Thomas Gordon and "being solomonly sworn on the Holy Evangelist of Almighty God" did take an oath he saw Robert Burnett sign said deed.

The point of the part in the probate section--he was still living in NJ in 1714 and he took an oath--QUAKERS--confirm.

So Robert Mackay was not a Quaker as of 1714. And more than likely his first marriage to Ann Brown took place in NJ and not a Quaker marriage. Their children most likely born in NJ. At this point I do not know if important or not, a John Brown of Freedhold, NJ also was a witness and he also took an oath.

Something to ponder.

In the past family researchers have labored under the assumption that families traveled together in groups. Which I think is the correct postion. The next step you need to do is identify which group your ancestors belonged. We have not been able to establish before PA the surname MacKay associated with other Quaker communties.

The question--not addressed by Hunter and others, did Robert leave NJ for PA by himself ? I do not think it would be reasonable that he did.

I think the answer is he belonged to the group of Presbyterian families that removed down from MA to NJ and then later removed as a group to Cecil Co. MD/Nottingham Meeting House area and some then removed down into Frederick Co. VA.

Looking through Hopewell Friends Marriages I see some of the same surnames in that location as appear on the listing of prisoners transported to Boston, MA in 1652: Taylor, Jackson, Thompson, Hogg, MacPherson, Wilson, Moore, Ross, O'Neal, McConnell & MacKay. The question has been asked "How could Robert MacKay a Scotman become a peaceful Quaker ?" Well this question could be asked of all the other Scottish surname listed in Hopewell Friends. There are other Scottish surname: Anderson, Buchanan, Campbell, Craig, Gordon, Hamilton, Hudson, Ingles, Johnston, MacKean, Roy, Sutherford, Moore & Wallace which appear in the early Frederick Co. VA land deeds, all of their surname appear on the Prisoners List from Battle of Worchester.

I hope next week a new batch of film will arrive at the L.D.S. library, I will be looking not only for Mackay but evidence of all the above surnames. I have already noted that a Patrick Inglis of MA purchased land in early Freedhold area. Two Ingles: James & Patrick were prisoners transported in the ship "John and Sarah of London" landed Boston, MA 13 Feb 1652.

There is also a book entitled "NJ Descendants of Mayflower Families". I have not found any MacKay, but I will be in the future looking for some of the above surnames. I did find a John Mackay in MA 1750's that did marry a Mayflower descendant. I need to check those book at Fairfax Public Library for the above surnames. The point being to see movement down from MA into NJ.

I hope to know more about my theory by the end of the month. In any case the key to the parentage of Robert Mackay must be found in NJ. I do not recall any professional historians (published works) or any of our family historian putting forward this theory of the original of Robert Mackay, perhaps this is why since 1927 Hunter B. McKay looked in vain.

Hopewell Friends History on page 14:

"Alexander Ross of Pennsylvania and Virginia was probably of Scotch-Irish descent and was born about 1682. He was brought to Pennsylvania as an indentured servant when about eleven years old."

He served Caleb Pusey of Chester, PA.

But who were his parents ? Was he born in PA or elsewhere ? People have said our Robert MacKay Sr. was "Scotch-Irish" and that has not been proven.