robertmackayclan

I just received a message from a Larry Copenspire about my Sowers Book.

Dated 31 Jan 2002

"I have done my research but I'M wondering if you have done your're or are you just trying to sell your book. I HAVE THE FAMILY BIBLE. I find no Double Sowers as far as my family goes.

Talking to some the cousins who have read your book they say some of your research is messed up. Your snotty reply to my second message tells me that you are a person that I don't care to share any information with."

Larry Copenspire

e-mail address COPEYS@aol.com

My Sowers book has all the documents linking Etta D. Sowers two lines back to the oldest known Sowers--Jacob Sr. So I have no idea what Mr. L. Copenspire is talking about.

Since you (Michael) and I are the only ones of our McKay/Sowers cousins interested in the Sowers family, you might want to write him to see where I "messed up" with all these other "cousins".

On your web site I see only one other person has gone to the trouble to supply you information. All the other "stuff" is my efforts---FREE--to the public. That's what people seem to want.

I have no copies of the Sowers book to sell, I told him and about three other people the same thing. I fail to see how that's being a "snotty reply". And I have directed all who ask about the Sowers or Kerfoot families to check out your site. And I am taking the time to add to your site any additional information I can find concerning the Sowers & Kerfoot families. Again I fail to see how that being "snotty", by tell others where they can find the information for themselves.

In 1990 & 1991 I used my own time and monies (each L.D.S. film cost $3.25 a piece) collecting copies of original records (35 cents charged by L.D.S. & 15 cents Fairfax Public library) and compiled in a small book all I could find concerning the Sowers family. None of the work of the late Hunter Branson McKay had copies of original records. And his census information only down to 1850. But those who are interested can see his "Sowers File" on film through the L.D.S. library (cost of $3.25 each film). And his mother gave him incorrect information about her direct line which will appear in his work. Other than you, Michael (who supplied some death notices), no one else was interested !!!!!

Now in 2002, people think I should carry further personal debt by "sharing" with them copies of my work for the cost of pennies on the dollar. The reason I mail two copies (at my cost) to the Handley Library and L.D.S. library is so I would bear no more cost to my own personal household. I also allowed the Handley Library to put special paper in their copying machine (without copyright markings on the paper) so my "cousins" could have a better copy of my work. I feel in this way I am "sharing" all my time and my own personal monies with others. They just have to spend their own monies for copying. If they have the information or do not like what they see, then they do not have to use my material. It is that simple.

I am sorry if people do not understand my postion, but there it is. Bluntly--I have given to others far more than I have received.

I have done the same thing with my McKay book (13 copies remain), Lehew/Branson, Cossart, Carrington & Melton. And this will be my policy in the future with all my other family histories.

I have only two remaining questions about my Sowers family: more about wife/wives? of Jacob Sowers Sr. and the wife of Daniel Sowers--Catherine. If the past is my guide I rather doubt others will solve these questions for me. I will have to do the work for myself.

After I finish with abtracting, compiling & editing Fauquier Co. VA Land Deeds in book form, I will start doing the same thing with Warren, Clarke, Page, Frederick & Shenandoah counties wills and land deeds. Then I will be sure if the documents are present to answer all my questions about my ancestors on my Shipp & McKay side of the family.

Further I want to put on the table. Then Hunter B. McKay and my father Ralph E. Shipp passed around information about the McKay, Antrim, Lehew, Branson, DuBois, Kerfoot & Sowers families--this is the way it worked. H.B. McKay did not spend monies making copies of original documents (other than Fairfax Land Suit) so he did not have that cost. He would use carbon paper typing all his notes, mailed a copy down to my father, who took the carbon copy, made two copies at his place of business (no cost to him) and then they would use the second copy as the circulation copy. Or my father would made copies of pages at his place of business when others wanted just a few pages copied. As a result--copying cost were not taken out of the pockets of H.B. McKay or R.E. Shipp. I have no FREE copying machine. Neither of these two men have spend the monies I have making copies of original documents.

All that I have on my family histories came from public records, which means, all I have--others can go to the time, expense & trouble gathering, copying and compiling for themselves their own personal family histories. It is that simple.

That's a surprise reply for me as well. I never heard anything of that sort coming from other Sowers relations.

Basically I follow the same route with my Steer Genealogy records. If and when I ever get an updated version printed my main plan is to print up a copy and have it placed in the Handley Library. The second thing I may do is to also contribute a copy to The Waterford Foundation. I make no promises because I have no idea when I would ever get something like that printed up although I would like to.

It boggles my mind that some people would react this way as if they think that everything in life is free. If you want free information be prepared to get a lot of erroneous information since that's what happens with all of this free sharing.

My policy as stated below in the thread about R.S. McKay's middle name is to provide on-line for people some partial genealogy records of the family. I do not have the resources to try and attempt to put on-line an accurate and complete genealogical record so I only limit myself to those lines who connect to the wills, photos and other documents that are being displayed.

This will give the viewer a brief sketch of the family and they can determine for themselves if a connection exists between us and themselves. I also try to cite my sources which should encourage people to check them out. I do not make claims that they are all primary sources but for the sake of argument there they are.

I especially would like people to see this and want to learn more by purchasing the books you have (or by checking them out at the libraries & LDS system) because they would have a better understanding of things if they did.

All in all my desire is to bring together these different relatives and make our reunions and other events stronger in the end.

As to people simply wanting things for themselves and easy answers well, I can only do so much. The rest is up to you to find out on your own.

I also wish people would consider posting their questions on this forum instead of privately e-mailing me because you can get much better help by letting others know of your questions. I do not necessarily have all the answers and frequently I don't know where to begin to look or really have a whole lot of time to devote to finding the information.

I just received a message from a Larry Copenspire about my Sowers Book.

Dated 31 Jan 2002

"I have done my research but I'M wondering if you have done your're or are you just trying to sell your book. I HAVE THE FAMILY BIBLE. I find no Double Sowers as far as my family goes.

Talking to some the cousins who have read your book they say some of your research is messed up. Your snotty reply to my second message tells me that you are a person that I don't care to share any information with."

Larry Copenspire

e-mail address COPEYS@aol.com

Like the books I have compiled for the ancestry of Elizabeth Antrim (wife of Jacob) and Ann E. Lehew (wife of T.B. McKay), I hope in about five years to do a complete study of the various surnames that went into the make up of my great-grandmother Etta Double Sowers:

Sowers--she had a double line back to Jacob Sowers Sr. through his son Daniel and his two sons: John W. & Wm. Sowers. I need to trace the business dealings of Jacob Sowers Sr. in Winchester, VA. I want to find records of the name of his wife as stated in his will--Mary And to see if she was the only wife of said Jacob. Records will also have to be read in PA for him.

I still need to find out the maiden name of Daniel Sowers Sr.'s wife Catherine.

Also want to point out, found in the papers of Hunter Branson McKay about 100 letters and short notes from his mother to various family members. Do to the lack of interest by the other descendants of said Etta, I will not take the time to type into this book all those pages. But others can read said letters ordered from Salt Lake, UT through any L.D.S. library on film.

Jenkins--came into the family through the marriage of Catherine Jenkins to Wm. Sowers. I am still looking to confirm that they were a Quaker Family that came down into VA from PA. It is this line which may have a connection with the family of MacKay/McKay of Robert Sr. Elizabeth McKoy (daughter ??? of John McKay, son of Robert Jr.???) & Wm./Thomas Jenkins married in Frederick Co. VA were the parents of said Catherine Jenkins. If true Etta D. Sowers & her husband C.E. McKay would have been cousins through Robert McKay Jr. I am missing a lot of the maiden names for most of the wives that married into the various families.

Kerfoot--others have compiled family histories on this surname. Others may have problems with the book Clarke Co. VA Houses by Brown, but his book contains a lot of pictures of old Kerfoot & Sowers homes. My purpose will be to document just my line which stayed in VA. We still have the problem as to the wife of Wm. Kerfoot Sr. If she really was a member of a Carter family, believe more likely belonged to the Quaker Carter family listed in Hopewell Friends. Also need the maiden name of George Kerfoot's wife--"Peggy".

Mitchell--came into the Sowers family through the marriage of Mary Emily Mitchell to John W.Sowers. These are my real "headache" lines: Mitchell & Johnston. Particularly the last surname Johnston. The oldest known Mitchell was Cary who died in 1799 Frederick Co. VA, his wife Frances. We need her maiden name. Still trying to find out his parentage. With the Johnston family, I know of three different Johnson/Johnston living in the area of Frederick Co. VA. The oldest known couple were Wm. Johnston who married in Old Episcopal Church, Frederick/Clarke Co. VA to Frances Reynolds. "We" believe said Frances Reynolds was from Richmond Co. VA but as of now lack the evidence. I am working with one other person on these surnames--Johnston/Reynolds. She could have some great blood lines. Very unclear which Johnson/Johnston family Wm. belonged.

I hope after I read all Clarke and Frederick counties land deeds and wills to find the answers to all my questions. Or I will know the documentation is not present. The book will contain as my other works copies of the actual original documents. I think the page count will be larger enough to just run off forty copies.

If or when you finish working on this I would definitely like to purchase a copy.

I haven't begun to update the partial genealogy records of the Sowers family for the website which would be considerably smaller than the one for Mackay yet.

These will of course connect to the Sowers pictures and wills that are displayed. At present I don't have any plans to add any more McKay or Sowers pictures unless a few might come my way. These could be photos of Mary (Sowers) Heflybower & husband Samuel, George Henry and/or Martha Virginia Sowers and Charles Edward & Etta D. McKay and Oscar Taylor McKay & wife. Also, am interested in getting copies of some of our Ohio relatives who descend from Moses & Abigail (Shinn) McKay.

As far as the Steer pictures go I do have a few that I will add eventually. They are ones of Samuel & Mollie (Robinson) Brown, Charles Hunter Robinson & Annie (Robinson) Cloud.

Like the books I have compiled for the ancestry of Elizabeth Antrim (wife of Jacob) and Ann E. Lehew (wife of T.B. McKay), I hope in about five years to do a complete study of the various surnames that went into the make up of my great-grandmother Etta Double Sowers:

Sowers--she had a double line back to Jacob Sowers Sr. through his son Daniel and his two sons: John W. & Wm. Sowers. I need to trace the business dealings of Jacob Sowers Sr. in Winchester, VA. I want to find records of the name of his wife as stated in his will--Mary And to see if she was the only wife of said Jacob. Records will also have to be read in PA for him.

I still need to find out the maiden name of Daniel Sowers Sr.'s wife Catherine.

Also want to point out, found in the papers of Hunter Branson McKay about 100 letters and short notes from his mother to various family members. Do to the lack of interest by the other descendants of said Etta, I will not take the time to type into this book all those pages. But others can read said letters ordered from Salt Lake, UT through any L.D.S. library on film.

Jenkins--came into the family through the marriage of Catherine Jenkins to Wm. Sowers. I am still looking to confirm that they were a Quaker Family that came down into VA from PA. It is this line which may have a connection with the family of MacKay/McKay of Robert Sr. Elizabeth McKoy (daughter ??? of John McKay, son of Robert Jr.???) & Wm./Thomas Jenkins married in Frederick Co. VA were the parents of said Catherine Jenkins. If true Etta D. Sowers & her husband C.E. McKay would have been cousins through Robert McKay Jr. I am missing a lot of the maiden names for most of the wives that married into the various families.

Kerfoot--others have compiled family histories on this surname. Others may have problems with the book Clarke Co. VA Houses by Brown, but his book contains a lot of pictures of old Kerfoot & Sowers homes. My purpose will be to document just my line which stayed in VA. We still have the problem as to the wife of Wm. Kerfoot Sr. If she really was a member of a Carter family, believe more likely belonged to the Quaker Carter family listed in Hopewell Friends. Also need the maiden name of George Kerfoot's wife--"Peggy".

Mitchell--came into the Sowers family through the marriage of Mary Emily Mitchell to John W.Sowers. These are my real "headache" lines: Mitchell & Johnston. Particularly the last surname Johnston. The oldest known Mitchell was Cary who died in 1799 Frederick Co. VA, his wife Frances. We need her maiden name. Still trying to find out his parentage. With the Johnston family, I know of three different Johnson/Johnston living in the area of Frederick Co. VA. The oldest known couple were Wm. Johnston who married in Old Episcopal Church, Frederick/Clarke Co. VA to Frances Reynolds. "We" believe said Frances Reynolds was from Richmond Co. VA but as of now lack the evidence. I am working with one other person on these surnames--Johnston/Reynolds. She could have some great blood lines. Very unclear which Johnson/Johnston family Wm. belonged.

I hope after I read all Clarke and Frederick counties land deeds and wills to find the answers to all my questions. Or I will know the documentation is not present. The book will contain as my other works copies of the actual original documents. I think the page count will be larger enough to just run off forty copies.

I don't understand why there would appear to be a lack of interest in the Sowers family. This family intermarried quite frequently with our McKays so in order to better understand our McKay ancestry it only makes sense to learn a little about this family and all of the other families that connect.

Well, anyhow, the information is here on this website and out there for the viewer to find out if they should ever take up an interest.

I have only been contacted by one other Sowers researcher, but he appears to be interested in the groups of Sowers/Saurs of Shenandoah Co. VA.

Of my closer distant cousins I have been contacted about ten years ago by Betty Usher's husband to purchase a copy of my Sowers book and that is all the interest directly expressed to me by my McKay/Sowers cousins.

Recently I was contacted by the researcher who supplied information about the descendants of Jacob Sowers Jr.'s son John Sowers.

And of course I did receive this month (which I could have done without) the e-mail posted on his site by Larry Copenspire.

Our Sowers family is not like our McKay, Antrim, Lehew & Branson etc....larger families with branches of their original VA family who left VA for other parts of the US.

I just received a message from a Larry Copenspire about my Sowers Book.

Dated 31 Jan 2002

"I have done my research but I'M wondering if you have done your're or are you just trying to sell your book. I HAVE THE FAMILY BIBLE. I find no Double Sowers as far as my family goes.

Talking to some the cousins who have read your book they say some of your research is messed up. Your snotty reply to my second message tells me that you are a person that I don't care to share any information with."

Larry Copenspire

e-mail address COPEYS@aol.com

The reason I went to the trouble to compile my Sowers book, was because nobody else did. Except for the few notes found in Hunter Branson McKay's works nothing else had been written or compiled on them.

Found on my disk I send to the L.D.S. computer bank, I included all the Sowers names I had on file at that time. I did so in case others might in the future become interested in their Sowers Family History. Plus the fact the Sowers family inter-married so much with the Kerfoot and McKay families.

The information found in the L.D.S. computer bank is of course FREE. Unless others in Salt Lake, UT have changed, altered, delete etc.....the information dealing with our Sowers Family submitted on my disk all should be as I send to them. I am not responsible for others taking my information off this computer bank and transferring it by computer to their personal computers and then sending it off to other computer banks. I know for a fact this has happened.

I don't understand why there would appear to be a lack of interest in the Sowers family. This family intermarried quite frequently with our McKays so in order to better understand our McKay ancestry it only makes sense to learn a little about this family and all of the other families that connect.

Well, anyhow, the information is here on this website and out there for the viewer to find out if they should ever take up an interest.

I do not know if you have in the past visited the Sowers Web Pages found on Genforum & Rootsweb. But you will see there are a lot of different Sowers family groups living in US not related to our Sowers.

Personally, I am only interested in our Sowers Family.

I have only been contacted by one other Sowers researcher, but he appears to be interested in the groups of Sowers/Saurs of Shenandoah Co. VA.

Of my closer distant cousins I have been contacted about ten years ago by Betty Usher's husband to purchase a copy of my Sowers book and that is all the interest directly expressed to me by my McKay/Sowers cousins.

Recently I was contacted by the researcher who supplied information about the descendants of Jacob Sowers Jr.'s son John Sowers.

And of course I did receive this month (which I could have done without) the e-mail posted on his site by Larry Copenspire.

Our Sowers family is not like our McKay, Antrim, Lehew & Branson etc....larger families with branches of their original VA family who left VA for other parts of the US.

I believe that Quakerism probably played a role in that. Quakers generally produced some close knit communities and had detailed records of their members.

The Sowers, being Baptists probably didn't keep such meticulous records. I always thought Bethel had a close knit community and maybe at one point in time they did but during their waning years when the congregation was torn apart by disagreements culminating in the one dealing with the removal of the furniture from the church I guess that spelled the end for that community until Uncle Bev resurrected it somewhat by creating The Bethel Memorial, Incoroporated.

There are a few other Sowers/Kerfoot relations who come to Bethel's events every now and then but the only ones who have some dedication to this church appear to be limited to McKay/Sowers descendants and particularly my branch of the family who live in the area. The rest of the membership is comprised of local families who have taken an interest in the Memorial Church.

I do know that Cousin Aurelia Mowbray and her daughter have some interest in the Sowers and Heflybower families because I used some of her old pictures and documents dealing with Bethel and the Sowers family to help add to this website.

I also believe that the others in the family have interest in our Sowers family that is only passing. That is, they are interested in seeing what others have found out regarding the family and would probably take their word for it but when it comes to doing reseach on their own they aren't interested in that and I think that goes for a lot of people.

Not that there is anything wrong with that, it takes a special dedication and commitment to doing actual genealogy research and only a few people are blessed with the "calling" and they are sprinkled here and there in the various families that they are part of.